Friday, 22 April 2016

Europe - In or Out?

The USA is having a big vote soon, the Brits are also soon to have one: European referendum. 

Each is an important vote. The US Presidential is important because some of the candidates seem, to me, to be uniquely 'odd' - no names, no pack-drill, eh Donald?

The UK's vote to stay in or leave the EU is a tricky one too.

Do we continue to be governed by Brussels or revert to the British Parliament? 

Lots of scare-mongering as to what will be the outcome if we depart the EU, including advice from Mr. Obama and many others.  

I admit that I'm unsure of which way to jump. I detest the interference from the EU when they over-rule some of the British legal decisions and wish they'd keep their noses OUT.  I also think that the vast majority of Brits think the same, but is that a good enough reason to exit?  Probably not. 

Then there's the continuing expansion of the EU.  It started with about seven member states.  General de Gaulle always objected to Britain's entry but he's long gone. Now it's 28 members and the prospect of Turkey joining!

All with unlimited entry to the UK.  Yoiks!

I think I'll decide soon: probably LEAVE EU.

OK, I've decided.  Voting to say LEAVE.

Thank you for helping me decide. Thanks!

25 comments:

Snowbrush said...

I would vote as you. I wish the U.S. would give up telling other nations what to should do as it simply makes us look arrogant, and they’re not going to listen to us anyway unless we give them a lot of “foreign aid” i.e. pay-offs to their leadership.

PhilipH said...

Cheers Snowy. I think many UK voters will be unsure of the consequences of leaving the EU and will simply abstain on 23 June. Hope you're feeling as well as poss today.

Fram Actual said...

If I were your neighbor, Phil, I would be casting my ballot in the same manner.

I know little about the origins of the European Union and even less about the intricacies under which it operates today, but the entire conception seems unrealistic to me. In an American sense, I am a states' rightist and believe a central government should be minimal. As Henry David Thoreau once noted: "That government is best which governs least ...."

I could go on forever regarding this sort of topic, but I will wrap it up by saying I think the United States might be a better place and a happier place today had the South prevailed in the "War of Yankee Aggression" and we then would be two nations -- or, perhaps, even three or four. Such is a radical view, but it would make for an interesting debate.

It is nice to see you posting again, Phil.

PhilipH said...

Thanks Fram. I seem to have faded from blogland recently. Quite usual and I'm one of thousands who kinda lose interest now and again.

After WW2, Churchill had visions of a 'united Europe' as he foresaw the threat that Russia would be the next aggressor. It's become too large imo.

the walking man said...

From a distance I see the open border policy of the EU and to be honest I think it's slightly insane in this era. Why remove physical checks of them entering the country, even our border with Canada our largest trade partner, is strongly regulated. Yes we can still pretty much travel within our own national borders, but even in that there is a very good possibility of a police stop every 1,000 miles traveled. With the British Pound currently the strongest currency in Europe, I say cut them dragging you down off. I doubt they would close the Chunnel or stop using Brit banks for funding.

No I won't comment on American politics Philip, it is an extremely bizarre election cycle here, good Lord, the flaming idiots are now trying and succeeding at getting the keys to the institution.

Sparkling Red said...

Yep, the whole Donald Trump fiasco is almost beyond belief. I am hanging on to the belief that he can't possibly win a presidential election, even if he does win the Republican race. I'm Canadian, but of course you can't live next door to the USA and not be affected by their politics.

I haven't been following the EU story closely, but I have heard from a few credible sources that it's not working out well for everyone to be sharing a currency without sharing a common economic policy. Those sources say that the lender nations are as much to blame for national bankruptcies as the borrower nations. It's certainly something to think about.

PhilipH said...

Mark, most Brits get plenty of news about the USA election system. Few really understand it though. And it is so long-winded. Here in the UK it's fairly simple but then we just choosing a political party, NOT a president. Most people have no great faith in politicians but that's not uncommon in other countries either.

Sparkling, thanks for your input. Donald Trump would be a scary president should he be elected. Highly unlikely outcome from what little I know about the system but crazier things have happened - remember George Dubbya Bush for example.

the walking man said...

Basically our system for individual voters is two parts. The primary election and the general election. The primary is for a number of party delegates either split up or given en toto to the winner of the primary and them down the ladder. Each state set's its own rules. States that have already voted are parsing delegates now, who gets how many for the convention. Once all the states have had their primaries the delegates apportioned to each candidate go to the convention to actually "nominate" the overall winner of delegates.

This is a particularly odd year because the PARTY in both elections have declared their support (or in the case of Trump non support) if any candidate does not get the required number of delegates through the primary process the convention becomes a cigar smoke, good whiskey back room affair (brokered), At the end of the convention the ticket will be set Republican & Democrat with a number 3rd party candidates on the ballot.

Between August and November the campaigns make mud and, like chimps in the zoo, fling it.

The first Tuesday in Nov is election day when the general population votes. In general terms a turnout higher than 40% is considered good.

BUT that vote only establishes the direction our members of the electoral college (political hacks) are supposed to vote when the house of representatives confirms the vote of the people. The most egregious misuse of this in between step was 2000 when the house did not settle the election according to the popular vote but sent the dispute to the Supreme Court who gave W the job because supposedly he had a 534 vote majority in Florida which put him over the top in state reps to the electoral college.

It is confusing and there is more than this brief summary but of a fact I prefer the Parliamentary system BUT all our politicians with few exceptions are bought and paid for through lobbyists with big money behind them.

2 years ago a study done by Northwestern University found we have actually become an Oligarchy and if you actually lived here you could see the facts of that study are well born out.

PhilipH said...

Well, thanks for that explanation Mark. If the Brits had this convoluted system I am sure the percentage of voters would drop to about zilch! Money rules the roost in all systems of course. Most of our bigwig politocos were Eton educated which costs a lot of dosh to get on those hallowed playing fields. Churchill was NOT one who went to Eton but to Harrow, another 'posh' school but not quite as prestigious as Eton. John Major went to a normal Grammar School but still made prime minister. I saw today that the Republicans are doing deals to exclude one and another in some states - mainly to push The Donald out somehow. Oh what a tangled web etc etc.

Snowbrush said...

“Clinton put out a good video about Trump's claim to "be more presidential": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BUj9bXEVvk”

My best guess is that no matter whether Trump or Kruze win the Republican nomination, the other will run as an independent, which will split the field and allow Clinton to win. The next best scenario would be that Trump will win the nomination, Kruze will drop out, and Clinton will run against Trump alone. Kruze's policies are as scary as Trump’s, but because he speaks in a quiet voice, he seems less threatening, which would give him a better chance to win if it comes down to him versus Clinton. Still, there are just so many minority groups that the Republicans can afford to alienate.

All Consuming said...

It is difficult, not a clear cut aye or nay at all but ultimately I think you may be right Philip *smiles*.

PhilipH said...

I wonder if Donald Trump could pop over and advise us? lol

PhilipH said...

Obviously Snowy, you are much closer to the Presidential race than I; no idea as to how these shenanigans work. I just hope Mrs. Clinton doesn't smoke cigars, like Dollar Bill...

Snowbrush said...

"Obviously Snowy, you are much closer to the Presidential race than I..."

Bill has had heart problems, so I think he probably cut the cigars out (I had just as soon he smoke and die). There’s a lot that I'm vague about regarding how presidents are elected here, but it’s not so simple as having a majority vote. It now seems likely that Trump and Clinton will be the final choices for the November election. I wish it had been Sanders and Trump, but I am at least happy that the Republican nominee is likely to be Trump because if Clinton can’t beat Trump, I’ll be in a state of utter despair for this country.(I sometimes wonder if Trump is even sane).

PhilipH said...

Trump does seem a right prat so far BUT some commentators over here reckon that IF and WHEN he then changes his loud outrageous rants and becomes the calm, business-like type of candidate for the top job. Hope he fails totally. Obnoxious he is imo.

Snowbrush said...

"the calm, business-like type of candidate for the top job"

According to Trump, he has already done that (not that anyone would notice). Really, the man has said so much that could so easily be used against him, that there's really no backing away from it even if he could start acting calm and business-like—i.e. sane. According to current polls, even if every person in the Republican Party should vote for Trump, he would still lose. You see, an awful lot of people here aren't registered as members of any party. I am one of them because when you register as a member of a party, you start getting phone calls from that party asking you to help them out. I won’t do that because I would consider it rude to work on a phone bank or go around knocking on people’s doors. Everyone who is interested can easily find out what a candidate thinks without being annoyed by strangers on the phone or at the door.

LL Cool Joe said...

As a fellow Brit I will be voting to stay in the EU, but I have a feeling the outs will win.

PhilipH said...

Hi Joe. I am not at all sure about in/out of the EU after all the outrageous claims and forecasts from either camp. I certainly DO wonder if the change from the status quo will be worth all the bureaucratic shenanigans that will ensue. Cameron must be cursing the day he promised to hold this referendum and THAT'S a fact!!

Fram Actual said...

There is such a thing as keeping a low profile and there is disappearing from the face of the earth. How about it Phil ??

I think I will disappear for a while.

I hope all is well and fine for you ....

I still would vote "leave," if I were a Brit. Actually, I never would have joined.

Back here, I vote Never Obama, Never Clinton, Never Trump. I must have been born to lose -- politically. I still expect a figurative explosion and unanticipated events to change everything.

Take care ....

PhilipH said...

Sorry. Heart playing up. Feeling weak and v.tired.

Cozy in Texas said...

I came across your blog today. I spent my childhood in Penge, but now live in Texas.
Ann

PhilipH said...

Hi Ann. I sometimes visited the Peggy Spencer dance studio in Penge. She trained the very best formation dance teams in the UK. Hope you are enjoying your life in Texas and that you will NOT be voting for that cranky bloke called Trump!

Snowbrush said...

I miss hearing from you.

PhilipH said...

Hi Snowy. I've not been at all active in Blogger lately - apart from keeping a weather eye on darling Michelle.

My beautiful ballroom teacher, Pat Stinton (nee Teare) died a few weeks back, she was 84. I'd known her since 1951 and she was such a talented and beautiful woman. I am relieved that she is in no pain and distress any more but so sad that she died.

Also lost my dear friend and ex-boss, Lord John Haddington, the 13th Earl of Haddington, aged just 74. He and I got on so well during our life with him and his lovely family in Mellerstain House. Again I'm glad his illness was relatively short but sad that I could not undertake the long drive to see him whilst he was ill. I would have liked to have attended his funeral in Galashiels but, sadly, I am not fit enough for long car drives any more.

I do hope that you, Peggy and the cats are as well as can be.

Love and best wishes,
Phil

lotta joy said...

I know how to fix things - all things. If there was a third option: NONE OF THE ABOVE, then an entirely new lineup would have to be instigated, for that bottom line would wipe all the above abominations out of the arena. I have to vote for the devil I don't know, instead of the devil I DO know. How's that for election material. (I should have inserted the question mark, but that key no longer works on my keyboard)